Replace Bunshin with Zeninage

Some oldschool Final Fantasy fans among you may have already noticed, but there is one ability on the Samurai's skillset that does not really belong. Granted, Iainuki and Shirahadori don't quite work the way they do in FF either (Iainuki being an instakill attack and Shirahadori being Evasion), but Bunshin? I don't think Samurai has once been associated with that. On the other hand, one of the Samurai's signature moves is not present. That move is Zeninage or Gil Toss. Admittedly Gil Toss is mostly useless is many recent Final Fantasy games, but you'll probably change your mind about it once you see the FFV version. I'm sure we could find a way to properly incorporate the ability.

However, Bunshin has become an important ability of the FFERPG Samurai and I thought before doing fast changes I'd better make a thread about it. What do you think about this?

I personally think its a useless skill, it only makes 1 copy and its not even that well of a diversion, if it functioned more like the Knight Ulti I could understand but i'm all for changing it. Maybe Coin Toss *it really was a beast in FFV, 9999 on everyone, even that fool Exdeath* could function by taking the gold you wouldve gotten from killing a guy *or multiple guys if its a area move* and times it by 1,2,3,4,5 for the ranks? Then the "Coin" tossing factor *since your throwing your money away* could be that those affected will no be worth gold when slain. They can still be subject to drops and bosses shouldn't be affected by the Coin Toss limitations if you can help it. I'm not quite sure how good that would scale but minor tweaking elsewhere could make it work.

I vote yes for the change.

I remember Darkmega being all for the coin tossing skill, since you buy everything then just farm your money up to max. I'm not sure how I'd like to see it implemented, but sure, such a change should be fun.

(Though the Samurai losing his clone would feel weird, since he's the blademaster. But I'll get over it.)

Zergling_man wrote:(Though the Samurai losing his clone would feel weird, since he's the blademaster. But I'll get over it.)

Well, that's kind of the problematic point here: the Samurai is not the Blademaster. Besides their weapon of choice they have little in common. And I read somewhere in PoLlama that Bunshin and Crit Strike were only given to the Samurai class because the standard WC3 Blademaster has them.
So far, it doesn't seem like many people object.

Well Crit strike can be attributed to FFT Bonecrusher skill, where he would deal his max life in dmg while in a critical life state, I can see this just being an adaptaion of that, the clone however is out of place imo.

Oh man. Totally should replace crit with that. Dealing max health in damage to Eden. jejejejejejejejejeje

Karifean wrote:Well, that's kind of the problematic point here: the Samurai is not the Blademaster. Besides their weapon of choice they have little in common.

Yes, he is. Samurai is using the model of the Blademaster. So he is the Blademaster. That's why I expect him to have clone.
As I said though, it's a connection I can cut easily.

[quote="Zergling_man"]Oh man. Totally should replace crit with that. Dealing max health in damage to Eden. jejejejejejejejejeje

Well considering you deal crits all the time and barely do any dmg to Eden I doubt that 87000 hits would do much when you only live for 2 hits

Andrenden wrote:Well considering you deal crits all the time and barely do any dmg to Eden I doubt that 87000 hits would do much when you only live for 2 hits

Are you thinking about Omega? Because Eden's hits are not powerfull enough to kill you in 2 hits.

psxlover wrote:

Andrenden wrote:Well considering you deal crits all the time and barely do any dmg to Eden I doubt that 87000 hits would do much when you only live for 2 hits

Are you thinking about Omega? Because Eden's hits are not powerfull enough to kill you in 2 hits.

Bonecrusher, the skill as it is in Tactics requires you be in a critical life state, so basicly in the red, he can kill you fairly quickly if you hanging out in deep red for those hits

I implemented the skill today, it seems to work without any bugs. As of now, it hits every enemy nearby with (Level of Samurai + 1) x (Level of Zeninage Skill x 20) coins. The amount of coins is dealt to the enemy as holy damage ignoring defense and mag defense.
Examples:
Level 5 Samurai uses Level 2 Zeninage on 4 nearby enemies: (5+1)x(2x20) = 6x40 = 240 damage to every enemy, wasting 240x4 = 960 coins.
Level 10 Samurai uses Level 3 Zeninage on 8 nearby enemies: (10+1)x(3x20) = 11x60 = 660 damage to every enemy, wasting 660x8 = 5280 coins.
Level 99 Samurai uses Level 5 Zeninage on 1 enemy (Eden anyone?): (99+1)x(5x20) = 100x100 = 10000 damage, wasting 10000 coins.
You get the idea.
Cooldown is 50/45/40/35/30 seconds to avoid complete spammage, it doesn't cost any mana whatsoever.
Think it's too powerful, too weak, or would it work?

Karifean wrote:I implemented the skill today, it seems to work without any bugs. As of now, it hits every enemy nearby with (Level of Samurai + 1) x (Level of Zeninage Skill x 20) coins. The amount of coins is dealt to the enemy as holy damage ignoring defense and mag defense.
Examples:
Level 5 Samurai uses Level 2 Zeninage on 4 nearby enemies: (5+1)x(2x20) = 6x40 = 240 damage to every enemy, wasting 240x4 = 960 coins.
Level 10 Samurai uses Level 3 Zeninage on 8 nearby enemies: (10+1)x(3x20) = 11x60 = 660 damage to every enemy, wasting 660x8 = 5280 coins.
Level 99 Samurai uses Level 5 Zeninage on 1 enemy (Eden anyone?): (99+1)x(5x20) = 100x100 = 10000 damage, wasting 10000 coins.
You get the idea.
Cooldown is 50/45/40/35/30 seconds to avoid complete spammage, it doesn't cost any mana whatsoever.
Think it's too powerful, too weak, or would it work?

Is that one enemy, or if there are more would it hit them the same? If it hits every enemy with that 10,000 then its OP on a 30 second cooldown, thats pretty much like the Wizards Ulti or the Prophets ulti *minus the life/mana return of course* but on a far shorter cooldown. Maybe those cooldowns need to be reversed to scale up with that kind of power increase?

I would say why not... and the rest?